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Post by DW on Nov 13, 2006 11:30:33 GMT -6
I sure feel sorry for people who have no faith (you know, atheists). Yeah right as if faith makes you a better person, don't make me laugh.... Religion has proven to be one of the most dangerous weapons in the past and present thanks to all those fundamentalist and new-born Christians...and before anyone starts calling me atheist, I'm Protestant but I for one am more tolerant than many of you so called good-hearted Christians will ever be. Christians say they're good, how come they can't accept people the way they are, they feel..how come you can't accept a person who wishes not to believe in God...the way I see things, no-one knows for sure whether there is God and I'm sure that if there is one one of the messages he'd have for us would not be to follow him wherever we go but to lead our own life and be happy...spread the love...how do they say in all those NDE postings...God is love, I prefer to believe in that... |
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Post by Rob W. Case on Dec 6, 2006 15:58:34 GMT -6
I sure feel sorry for people who have no faith (you know, atheists). Yeah right as if faith makes you a better person, don't make me laugh.... Religion has proven to be one of the most dangerous weapons in the past and present thanks to all those fundamentalist and new-born Christians...and before anyone starts calling me atheist, I'm Protestant but I for one am more tolerant than many of you so called good-hearted Christians will ever be. Christians say they're good, how come they can't accept people the way they are, they feel..how come you can't accept a person who wishes not to believe in God...the way I see things, no-one knows for sure whether there is God and I'm sure that if there is one one of the messages he'd have for us would not be to follow him wherever we go but to lead our own life and be happy...spread the love...how do they say in all those NDE postings...God is love, I prefer to believe in that... Okay, let me break the structure of your remarks down for a moment. 1. You said, "as if faith makes you a better person, don't make me laugh." Response: Over time, if you embrace the faith and if you grow spiritually, you will not only become a better person, you will be a happier person than you were before. Faith doesn't make you more loved by God than an atheist. It's just that people who seek God and become Christians want filled the emptiness within them, so they ask God to do so. In other words, those who come to Christ for salvation are like people who are thirsty for something. Of course when you hunger or thirst for something, and it is supplied to you, your hunger will be quenched, and you progress as you learn more and put it up to the measurements of the world. You become more observant than you can possibly comprehend. Knowing that you can be freed from your sins and that you will go to heaven (not to mention the wisdom that you will receive if you seek it) is enough to make anyone happy and immune to the despair and the emptiness that the world offers. 2. People who have faith are definately happier than those who do not have faith. Why? There is a sense of purpose for them. They not only know that there's a better day coming, but they know that God keeps his promises. The simple birth and life of Jesus Christ chronicled the authenticity that God offers. After all, Jesus read from the very Old Testament prophets who foretold his birth, without dispute. 3. You said, “I for one am more tolerant than many of you so called good-hearted Christians will ever be.” My Reply: That is a very arrogant thing to say. It is also very ignorant. Most Christians are tolerant. It is when people try to impose their corrupted beliefs through legislation that Christians stand up and say, “no, you can’t have.” When many nit-picky fundamentalist Christians try to pass legislation that would practically make America a theocracy, most people stand up and say, “no, you can’t have.” Radical elements from both sides never win. You said, “Christians say they're good, how come they can't accept people the way they are, they feel..how come you can't accept a person who wishes not to believe in God.” My Reply: When don’t Christians accept non-Christians the way they are? Please, provide me with some substantial examples. If someone doesn’t want to believe in God, they don’t have to believe in God. It is your decision to accept or reject Christ. I can accept that. But for your benefit, I hope you are supernaturally powerful enough to escape death, so that your sins won’t have to be judged by the Ten Commandments. That is your responsibility, not mine. I will simply point the way (inform, give the directions if you will). I will also step in and correct the record if there are misconceptions brought out by distorted mindsets that are either ill-informed or uninformed. You said, “the way I see things, no-one knows for sure whether there is God” and at the same time, you said, “and before anyone starts calling me atheist, I'm Protestant.” My Reply: Isn’t that a bit contradictory? Most Protestants I’m aware of are Christians. How can you be a Protestant if you do not think there is a God? I know there is a God, and from experience. The experience, when put to mere words sounds cheap, and would sound loony to an atheist . But yet to another Christian who shares the same experiences, it is not only a reminder that God uses all of us, but it is also an element that renews and regenerates our hope and faith. You said, “I'm sure that if there is one one of the messages he'd have for us would not be to follow him wherever we go but to lead our own life and be happy...spread the love...how do they say in all those NDE postings...God is love, I prefer to believe in that.” My Reply: I am under the impression that you feel that many Christians are dictatorially bound by Christianity. That they have to enforce and impose everyone associated with them into becoming Christians, the same way other religions actually do. This is not the case. When someone becomes a Christian, they usually do so to escape the torment for which they put themselves in. If you live a certain way, you can attain consequences. If someone has “had it” with the way they lead their life, they CHOOSE to follow the template of a different path (i.e. Jesus Christ). By following him, you make decisions that are opposite from the ones you have made. You have finally found a way to be freed from blindly making the same mistakes over and over again. Christians are still human, and still make mistakes, but as Christians, they have a clear choice; live in the moment, or live for tomorrow. And some still choose to live in the moment. Those who live for tomorrow and who follow Christ do so out of their own free will. God may control the world, but he is not controlling. You decide your own fate. God is love. Jesus thought of everyone else before himself. He was a true servant, a giver. If we had the same power Jesus had, we would most likely use it to exalt ourselves. It’s only human nature. But to go through what he went through, for us, when you really sit and think hard about it, it is really compelling, beyond belief to even remotely try and grasp. |
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Post by MysteriousGuestX on Dec 17, 2006 0:14:19 GMT -6
I don't believe that becoming a Christian will make you a happier person. I am perfectly happy being an athiest and I know Christians that aren't happy. That thirst you talk about, I have it, and I fill it with knowledge, not blind faith. Blind faith will lead you know where, but science and knowledge can set you free. That is what I believe in. Knowledge is the bain of religion, because once you have the knowledge you no longer need religion to fill the gaps. Religion has survived by dumbing down the masses and suppressing the truth. I will not hide from reality in the bowels of religion, I will stand up to it and proudly so.
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Post by Rob W. Case on Dec 19, 2006 1:49:18 GMT -6
I don't believe that becoming a Christian will make you a happier person. I am perfectly happy being an athiest....... Those who have chosen to accept Christ did so for a reason. There are so many testimonies of this out there, that there isn't enough paper to print them all out. It's easy to say one is happy in the moment, but all that can be taken away in a flash. As a Christian, I enjoy the fact that I have been promised eternal life in heaven. If I knew for a fact that I was worshipping a dead man, or simply admiring a belief system, I would drop Christianity at the drop of a hat. But that isn't the case. No other person's birth was prophesied hundreds of years before it happened, happened word for word, had a man rise from the dead, and had the world's timeline revolve around it. Aside from that, the more I look at Bible prophecy, the more I see it fulfilled once again, word for word. The more I read Proverbs, the more I see that its wisdom admired (without them even realizing it) in the real world. The more the Holy Spirit teaches me, the more understanding I become. As I said before, putting it into words is hard because our language is so limited. This is the best way I can explain it..... 1 Corinthians 2:9-10 (KJV) 9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. That Spirit is a living, breathing thing which feeds those who seek it incredible insights and responses for which they can use in debates such as these. That thirst you talk about, I have it, and I fill it with knowledge, not blind faith. Blind faith will lead you know where, but science and knowledge can set you free. That is what I believe in. The faith I talk about isn't blind at all. Consider these dynamics. We shouldn't trust our feelings because feelings change and are deceptive. Atheism is a feeling that is changable and in many cases lead to deception. That is why there are so many politicians out there trying to play God, and support for them to do so. Those who say they don't believe in God do not believe that they are held accountable to any law but the government's. God's promises to anyone are not changeable and are not deceptive. They stay consistently the same. Revelation 3:20 (New International Version) 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. Matthew 28:20 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." John 10:28 (New International Version) 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. It sounds pretty profound. No other religious figure has ever talked like that in the present tense the way Christ did and does today. Every other religous figure has offered wisdom, but wisdom that prepares you for today, not tomorrow. Faith, as Nicky Gumbel put it is simply "taking God's promises and daring to believe them." Now, you mentioned science. This is another interesting dynamic. Albert Einstein once said, "A legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist. Science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind." I believe that modern science has been "adjusted" so to speak to fit the organized template of evolution that people who believe in evolution simply accept additional "data" through blind faith. Whenever tests are conducted through carbon dating, things that are to have said to be millions of years old, were in fact checked out to be thousands of years old. Add a few more zeroes and the evolutionists will rest easier tonight. Blind faith at work. Knowledge is the bain of religion, because once you have the knowledge you no longer need religion to fill the gaps. Religion has survived by dumbing down the masses and suppressing the truth. I will not hide from reality in the bowels of religion, I will stand up to it and proudly so. Religion has survived by making people fear the afterlife. It is through this fear religions have exploited to gain personal wealth, and it is sad, and has tainted the tried and true. My boss and I were arguing about this today as a matter of fact. He says that it's all the same. How does he know? Sure, he is well aware of those who have capitalised off of God to gain personal wealth and he sees the whole thing as a scam, but that doesn't cover me. Just last week we were talking about churches and religion and all that. I mentioned that at my church, we don't pass around the collection plate. It sits in the back for anyone who chooses to donate. There is no pressure. That's how it should be. And when a co-worker of mine's father had a terrible accident, this same small church wrote a check out for $150.00 to help her out. How many churches do we see give money for people? Christian churches. How many churches do we see ask for money from people? Churches that thrive on Religion. Years ago, I remember reading somewhere that Satan's favorite word is religion. It is because it has controlled so many people for so long, but it doesn't lead them to heaven. Many so-called "Christian" religions don't even use the Bible as its guide. They use their own man-made devices. The perfect example is Purgatory. Nowhere in the Bible will you ever encounter the word purgatory. Why? It doesn't exist. But many hang it over people's shoulders to encourage them to write that check, or tithe a little bit more this week. That ruins it for many, and their souls are left unsaved. Now they are unsaved and disenchanted with anything regarding God.... and who can blame them? I don't blame them for thinking that way. There are so many dynamics for which knowledge comes from the Bible. The Bible isn't necessarily an instruction book. It chronicles the many Jews that accepted his word, and whom God elevated for his purposes. Proverbs was written by King Solomon (King David's son). His experience as a King offered him incredible insights, with which he wrote down, and which not only apply today, but are alive and vibrant. Earlier this year I read Proverbs, and my mind kept referring to the current political climate. It's that up to date. Reality naturally fits the template of God and faith. Alternative reality, which is changeable and deceptive is adjusted to fit the template of a man-made science, a science that says that we are not held accountable by any higher law but the government's. After all, doesn't man-made science claim that we are animals? Animals are not held accountable to any law. So if we were all animals, why did Jesus Christ offer himself to be the sacrifice for our sins? Sacrifice for others, forgiveness, and compassion are all traits that are not in the law of the animals. They are the law of human beings. And it also offers a three-dimensional perspective to the verse..... 1 John 4:8 (NIV) 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. People have been killed. Many of the writers of the Bible were executed for writing this stuff. Why? It threatened tyrannical governments because there was someone higher than them that said that they were important, loved, and valuable. Nothing that is isolated within the animal kingdom can ever say that. That is simply a God trait. |
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Post by MysteriousGuestX on Dec 24, 2006 0:41:32 GMT -6
I have never heard of a carbon dating test being done, and then "adjusted" by a couple of zero's to make it millions instead of thousands. It is true that we cannot put an exact date to some of the matterials that are dated, but in the course of millions, even billions of years, a few thousand isn't a very big number. The actual process of carbon dating (and i'm dumbing it down here) involves, testing the decay rate of carbon atoms of the object, and comparing it with the decay rate of current carbon atoms, they can determine an approximate age.
Also, as a biology student, I have personally studied evolution, and it will be a big issue in up coming biology classes. It is not something you can just put off as a load of crap. Organisms are evolving all the time, some of them you can see with your own eyes, others require speciallized equipment. That is why Darwin and other scientists in his era, and earlier, could only make observations on what they could see. They set down the foundation that has expanded into what we know today about the evolution and adaption of organisms to their environment.
Furthermore, you speak of science as being blind faith, when there are thousands of years of scientific research that accumulate to the knowledge that we have today, all that Christianity has is one book, which is its own proof. Who is believing in blind faith?
There have also been many scientists and philosophers that have been executed, threatened, or had their work destroyed because it contradicted the bible.
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Post by Rob W. Case on Jan 1, 2007 6:10:42 GMT -6
I have never heard of a carbon dating test being done, and then "adjusted" by a couple of zero's to make it millions instead of thousands. It is true that we cannot put an exact date to some of the matterials that are dated, but in the course of millions, even billions of years, a few thousand isn't a very big number. The actual process of carbon dating (and i'm dumbing it down here) involves, testing the decay rate of carbon atoms of the object, and comparing it with the decay rate of current carbon atoms, they can determine an approximate age. Carbon Dating: Carbon dating is a method used in examining people and things that are hundreds, or perhaps a few thousand years. For us to actually use carbon dating that goes beyond that specific timeline, one must actually have a valid starting point. In other words, we would have to know how much carbon was in the atmosphere at the beginning of time and know how much it has increased or decreased since. Also, as a biology student, I have personally studied evolution, and it will be a big issue in up coming biology classes. It is not something you can just put off as a load of crap. Organisms are evolving all the time, some of them you can see with your own eyes, others require speciallized equipment. That is why Darwin and other scientists in his era, and earlier, could only make observations on what they could see. They set down the foundation that has expanded into what we know today about the evolution and adaption of organisms to their environment. I totally understand and respect the fact that things evolve. A tadpole evolves into a frog, and so forth. But what is a load of crap is the big bang theory for one, and we human beings evolving from apes. That can never be proven. There have been hoaxes and oddly mis-shapen bones that have attempted to have been passed off as real, genuine, "proof" of this alleged human into ape metamorphosis. If thousands of dinosaur skeletons can be found all over the world and can be re-constructed, how come there aren't dead bodies of each "milestone" in the ape to man process? After all, babies die, children die, and many others die of natural causes or acts of God (earthquakes, and so forth) before they ever have a chance to grow into adulthood. Furthermore, you speak of science as being blind faith, when there are thousands of years of scientific research that accumulate to the knowledge that we have today, all that Christianity has is one book, which is its own proof. Who is believing in blind faith? No. The Bible may be just "one book" today, but it wasn't always one book. Many of the things that were written in the Bible were very risky things to say and very dangerous. Many of the people who wrote the books of the Bible were executed for writing what they wrote. Why? Because those books prepared an opening for a kingdom coming in the future. That means an end to the current rule and thus, their tyrannical empire. In other words, revolution. Revolution is the freedom to exercise free will. God is not a rapist in the sense that he forces his will on others (although people mistakenly think so), nor is he a puppeteer who forces us to love him. Unconditional love is allowing the subject to, out of his own free will, choose his destiny, and which path he will take. If you decide to watch The Nativity Story, you will see this exercised in the behavior of King Herod, who was deeply disturbed by an ancient prophecy which declared this....... Jeremiah 23:5-6 (Written between 630 and 580 B.C.) 5 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.
6 In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
The LORD Our Righteousness.
See for yourself how Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophecies.
www.konig.org/messianic.htmThere are more sites like this as well. If you do the research, and knew the full ugly Historical context from which these scriptures of hope were brought into this selfish world, you could not make the claim you made. People gawk and marvel at the very notion of Nostradamus predicting a man rising to power named Hister (which is close to Hitler), yet they try to ignore or discredit the Bible when it hits the bullseye, or when foretold events start to fall into place, like a divine puzzle being assembled by a creator. The pieces fit. "I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. I have come in my Father's name and you do not accept me, but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him." —John 5:42-43 Now if that doesn't hit the nail right on the head, I don't know what does. There have also been many scientists and philosophers that have been executed, threatened, or had their work destroyed because it contradicted the bible. The books of the Bible were protected, I'm convinced, by God. After all, the prophets were Jewish, and get this, during the rule over the Roman Empire, the Jews were granted exemptions from the official Roman state religion. The Romans kept a close eye in every marketplace, in every corner, and in every way, ready to stop anyone who tried to overthrow the Roman Empire. What I would like you to answer is, now knowing what you now know (after reading this post), which philosophers have been executed, threatened, or had their work destroyed because it contradicted the bible? |
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Post by MysteriousGuestX on Jan 13, 2007 0:22:18 GMT -6
For scientists who were ridiculed and condemned by the church we have, Galileo who was ordered under house arrest and was not allowed to teach that the sun and not the earth was the center of the universe, Capernicus was executed by the church for being the first person to propose that theory that the earth revolves around the sun. Up until the last few hundred years, anyone who was associated with the immunisation movement (the creation of vaccines) as well as anyone associated with birth control. Like Emma Goldman, who was called the most dangerous woman in america for supporting birth control.
For philosophers we have Voltare, who was ex-communicated from the church for being a free-thinker, the same went for Thomas Paine. Charles Darwin, for his work on evolution. Judge John E. Jones the third, he was the judge in the Dover vs. Kitzmiller, he ruled against intelligent design being taught in schools.
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Post by Rob W. Case on Jan 14, 2007 4:51:44 GMT -6
Some of the claims you mentioned in your last response are erroneous for these reasons. 1. Nicholas Galileo was placed on House arrest during the Inquisition. The early Church movement (i.e. The Inquisition) was suffering from two threats: external persecution by the Roman Emperors, and internal strife caused by theological disputes. Of course this is all part of the early Catholic church and holds little to no relevance to me especially since I am not a Catholic. 2. Nicolaus Copernicus was never executed. The man suffered from a stroke. www.nndb.com/people/041/000029951/There was hesitation over his book De revolutionibus orbium coelestium which was released at the time of his death. The Catholic Church banned it in 1757. Copernicus was a devoted Catholic and chose to be buried within the Frombork Cathedral located in Poland. 3. Voltare had issues with the Catholic Church in France. 4. Darwinian evolution would be embraced by the Germans pre-Nazi era. Hitler used the principles of eugenics in concocting the Super Man, the Master Race, and It would later become institutionalized in the education system. Darwin's teachings were overwhelmingly rejected by not only the church, but also by the people. It would not be embraced until it was institutionalized in the education system along with some other influential agenda makers. 5. Thomas Paine stated in "The Age of Reason" (begun in France in 1793), : I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. This presents the view of moral relativism. That means that right or wrong is not held accountable to anyone but myself. So what is right is anything that taylors to one's own selfish pursuits and what is wrong is any opposition to reaching one's selfish pursuits. All the problems that exist today are due to moral relativism. In the political arena, politicians do not want to fight terrorism because it alienates their international lobbyists (people from other countries who pay campaign contributions to politicians so that their own personal interests with our enemies are not tampered with). 6. Emma Goldman was a radical anarchist. She was the inspiration for the ACLU, an organization hellbent on turning America into a Communist country. She taught Eugenics (the recipe which justified the master race initiated by Hitler) in Denver. Her views on Eugenics prompted her beliefs in birth control. Since she admired the Soviets so much, she was deported to Soviet Russia in 1919. The Point: You mentioned, "There have also been many scientists and philosophers that have been executed, threatened, or had their work destroyed because it contradicted the bible." Sure, the Roman Catholic Church was strict. I don't contest that. People rebelled against it, and many, had their reasons. But that just goes to show you, people (many in the Catholic Church) have obtained power and have used it for reasons other than what God had intended. That in itself stems from moral relativism as well. The Church Vs. Christ: If you really want to get technical, the church at the time of Christ rejected Christ as their Messiah. Long before Judeo-Christian law would come into existence, you had the Pharisees. The Pharisses were hardliners as well, and was on the scene over a thousand years before Roman Catholicism was so much as a thought. The Pharissees were extremely strict and pushed upon the Roman Empire to execute Jesus Christ for blasphemy. You read correct: Arrest Jesus Christ (the son of God) for blashphemy. But not only arrest him for blasphemy, but crucify him for blasphemy, for proclaiming his status as the Son of God. The people who executed this decision were among the religious elite, who cited scripture for their own power and personal wealth. Remember, it was Jesus who committed the controversial act of turning over the moneytables in the Temple. The church was not designed for selfish power, but to bring souls to Christ. Jeremiah, who communicated by the Holy Spirit that God would send a son, that he would be crucified, and rise again was put on trial, and sent to a dungeon to die over 700 years before it was fulfilled. 11 of the 12 Apostles who wrote books of the New Testament were executed. Paul (who used to slaughter Christians and became one himself chronicled his experience with the Holy Spirit and his acceptance of Jesus Christ in Romans, Corinthians, Thessalonians, and so on was beheaded at the orders of Roman Emperor Nero. Nero executed anyone who he thought would threaten his rule. Peter was crucified upside down. Mark was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria in front of Serapis, their pagan idol. John the Revelator was burned to death for his "sci-fi" accounts of futuristic events not too much after Nero committed suicide.. And there are more of these accounts as well. All of these accounts are not mentioned in the Bible but come from other Historical sources. Roman persecution and execution waves were so common in the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine who changed all that. Constantine was the first emperor to not only bring Christian influence in the Roman Empire, but also reaped the benefits from it. Rome was better than ever before. Everywhere Christianity flourishes, good comes out of it. If you strip away Christianity, all you have is selfishness and all of the baggage that comes with it. (Greed, lust, murder, and so forth.) If you lived in a society in which all of the non-Christian, or anti-Christian elements were all in play, without restraint, you wouldn't like it. The essence of Christianity has been a rebellious movement against the evils of the world. You've got to hand it to Paul (the man who was beheaded). He risked his life for telling it like it is..... Paul's Letter to the Romans (1:29-32) They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; thjey invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. So what was he for? In his letter to the Galatians, he said, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature (stated above) with its passions and desires. |
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Post by MysteriousGuestX on Feb 12, 2007 12:41:54 GMT -6
[Now, you mentioned science. This is another interesting dynamic. Albert Einstein once said, "A legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist. Science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind."]
The quote that you used from Albert Einstein is one that is way too often and is always misquoted. Here is another quote from Einstein that hopefully will shed some light on things.
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in my which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
[No other person's birth was prophesied hundreds of years before it happened, happened word for word, had a man rise from the dead, and had the world's timeline revolve around it.]
This also cannot be proven especially since the New Testament of the Bible was not written until 25-50 years after the death of Jesus. They could have easily written his life to fit the prophecy.
Also there are other forms of dating that are more reliable than C-14 dating, which can only be used to date a certain length of time.
You also mention that the apostles wouldn't die for fiction. First of all, we don't even know if the apostles were the ones who wrote the bible. Second, who know what people would do. Why do cult members drink poison? Maybe they wanted the power to control people's lives, or the money that religions bring in, or the fame of being one of Jesus's "Guys".
[There have been hoaxes and oddly mis-shapen bones that have attempted to have been passed off as real, genuine, "proof" of this alleged human into ape metamorphosis. If thousands of dinosaur skeletons can be found all over the world and can be re-constructed, how come there aren't dead bodies of each "milestone" in the ape to man process? After all, babies die, children die, and many others die of natural causes or acts of God (earthquakes, and so forth) before they ever have a chance to grow into adulthood. ]
Actually there are fossils recovered that show the transition from ancient "man" to what we look like now. You may think that they are all hoaxes but they still exist. Furthermore, the transition between the tadpole and the frog is the metamorphosis. It is not evolution. Just like the metamorphosis between a catapillar and a butterfly is not evolution.
Just because science, as of yet, cannot disprove God, that doesn't mean that he exists. We may never be able to prove that God does or doesn't exist.
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Post by Rob W. Case on Feb 13, 2007 6:18:20 GMT -6
Einstein’s Quote:
I am not aware of Einstein’s personal beliefs or faith, although I know that the quote I quoted previously is in fact a common one.
The Life of Jesus and the Testaments:
You said, “This also cannot be proven especially since the New Testament of the Bible was not written until 25-50 years after the death of Jesus. They could have easily written his life to fit the prophecy.”
No, I stated that the OLD TESTAMENT prophesied Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. The Roman Empire and the Church of the Pharisees were extremely strict about preserving the integrity of the Old Testament manuscripts by the prophets.
You made the claim stating, “You also mention that the apostles wouldn't die for fiction. First of all, we don't even know if the apostles were the ones who wrote the bible. Second, who know what people would do. Why do cult members drink poison? Maybe they wanted the power to control people's lives, or the money that religions bring in, or the fame of being one of Jesus's "Guys".
That statement alone reveals to me a sense of desperation. When the apostles wrote their books of the Bible, I don’t think they knew that they were writing “The Bible” as the entire Bible was compiled in one major book centuries later. The apostles wrote of their testimonies and what they witnessed first hand. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote of the events that they saw together. As you see the similarities, you also notice differences, but these differences are merely things that one apostle saw that the other didn’t or didn’t write about. After all, Matthew and Mark had their time with Jesus, so their experiences would show a difference, but when they gathered together, they would then join together. To put it in a simpler way, they would get off the ramp and meet each other on the main road.
But to assume that the apostles were kool-aid drinkers looking for power is a pretty low blow. Jesus’ apostles had no power to control anyone’s lives. How could they control people’s lives if they were imprisoned by the Roman Empire? Anyone that empowered the people, and that could have even been thought of to possibly overthrow the Government would be executed for conspiring to unseat the ruler of the Government. As for collecting wealth for the church, how could the church accept the men whom affiliated themselves with the “rebel?” Why would they even want to help a church that was corrupt in their own conduct?
During that time, worship was pretty much Judaism, and idol worship. Religion did not become a money-maker until centuries later, when more religions entered the “marketplace” so to speak. As I stated previously, during the rule over the Roman Empire, the Jews were granted exemptions from the official Roman state religion. Both the Jews and the Romans rejected Christ and were united in executing Christ. So, while Christ received no glory form the elites, why would they want to use whom they thought was a blasphemer to collect money? It doesn’t add up.
The Resurrection:
It was after the resurrection took place did the birth of Christianity begin. My friend, when Jesus died and was buried, his body was guarded by the Roman Empire. After all, nobody mustered up a following the way Jesus did. A guard would also serve as a symbolic message of what could happen to those who attempt to overthrow the empire and to show the loyalists that the man is dead. But that didn’t happen. In Jesus’ burial place there was a stone rolled back, his shroud left behind and folded, and a record of appearances that he made before he ascended into heaven.
Prophecy: Jesus promised that he will return, and he cited the conditions for which he will return. The contents are occurring right now, but there is restraint. Christians are currently restraining the intensity of those conditions. When Jesus calls his believers home (another promise that we call the rapture), that restraining force will be completely removed everywhere you go, and Israel will be the only nation protected. Jesus promised that he would plant the Jews in their land by the time of the end. That occurred in 1948. Out of the desert, Israel grew and became prosperous, another end-time prophecy fulfilled. Israel would once again recapture Jerusalem. That happened during the six day war in 1967. And the main promise: The Generation that sees these events come to pass will not pass away until all things (the harsh events of Revelation and the Return of Jesus Christ) are fulfilled. The point of Jesus returning is to stop everyone from destroying one another. After all, look at what has happened and what is happening within the last 7 years. I cannot, even if I try, believe that there will be a 2107 under the worldly conditions that currently exist, unless Christ returns and stabilizes the world.
Remember this: The only reason why all of this is hard for some people to take in is this…
1. It in some cases sounds far-fetched, because we are not used to seeing or interacting with such events and wonders in our regular lives.
2. Some do not want to take it in because they don’t want to be held accountable for a concept called sin. Subconsciously, if they think that there may be something out there, but are not completely sure, when they reach the other side, they may feel that they can use ignorance as their defense mechanism.
You mentioned, “Just because science, as of yet, cannot disprove God, that doesn't mean that he exists. We may never be able to prove that God does or doesn't exist.”
If God didn’t exist, we wouldn’t exist. Our entire system wouldn’t exist. Love wouldn’t and couldn’t exist. Laws wouldn’t exist. After all, what’s the point in what we do or say if there is no God? What would be the point of our existence? What would explain the elements which reflect that there is a God and that there is in fact an opposite, a Satan. Why is it when we discard God’s word by either discrediting, ignoring, or not believing in a God do we always fall prey to the characteristics of a Satan? After all, the Bible clearly states the very nature and characteristics of those who reject God, yet those who do reject God do not realize that they are following the very patterns that the Bible says those who reject God will do if they do not follow God.
It’s your choice on whether or not you accept or reject Christ. I just do the homework to make things clearer for the person seeking answers. I know that there is a God. There is a God who gets his will done through the realm of ideas, actions, and personalities. And in the face of fear and death, there is an indescribable peace that dominates our fears, worries, and concerns.
The Ape Man Factor:
What I was saying was that if there were in fact fossils of each and every step in the ape to man transition, then there would be thousands, if not millions of these bones found throughout the world. I am sick and tired of watching or reading news stories that claim that they may have found the next “breakthrough” in evolution, and when they show this alleged breakthrough, it simply looks like a two dimensional Rorschach test, where people see what they want to see. Obviously, evolutionists want to see evolution. Evolution requires faith, but far much more faith than what God requires.
Science has its principles and demands. Science is a measurement for mankind to be able to understand and put to words the systems and functions for which God put in place. Science is not a measurement designed to purposely accommodate the theories of another human being. After all, it is tempting (and has been done so many times by people) to want to create the conditions (motivated by their biases) and skewer results in order to fit the template that really, if you think about it, says that man is god, and that there is none other.
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